Talk:Geno Saurer

Hold it

the first Geno suarer w/ purple panles was a prototype and the red one apeared 4 times after that so does Purple=proto and Red=complete--Silverblade1 22:17, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

In the model kits, the red/black color sheme was seen on the original prototype (which also had fully unfolding tail vents, much like the anime one). The actual production kit was purple/black. The anime they seem to be a mix...the random Genos in /Zero were of the purple/black breed too. Pointytilly 01:13, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

yeah but the berserk fury was also found like the set up in the last GF episode (The berserk fury was SUPOSED to be raven's final zoid) but those GS were red not purple...im lost

The Fury wasn't meant to be Raven's Zoid in the anime. It didn't exist yet: GF ended march 2000 in Japan, BF was released mid-2001. And the /Zero Geno Saurers are definitely purple-trimmed, so any ties to the ones at the end of GF are speculation. Pointytilly 06:37, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

so ravens zoid was the proto type for the geno breaker wich means hiltz was going to use those geno suarers like an army(explains why he help raven, for his own gain)--Silverblade1 12:36, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

wrong! if u read the article, a discussion bewteen hiltz and riece proves that ambient tampered w/ the zoid core of the new genosaurer. hiltz aniticipated the geno breaker's evolution, so he had ambient tamper with the core. this is probobly the reason that shadow cant stay fused with the geno breaker very long, because shadow only started the evolution. as u kno ambient has the ability to mutate a zoid like specula. this is shown by the mutant gun sniper and stealth viper. in terms of anime, geno breaker is most likely just a genosaurer mutation due to ambient tampering with the zoid core. however unlike the stealth viper and gun sniper it s not a full mutation because even though it took ambient to mutate it, it took shadow to evolve it. hiltz must have ordered ambient to not fuly evolve the zoid for reasons still unknown. it s most likely that the genosaurer would have still evolved into something similar, if not identical to a geno breaker in a black color scheme if the core had not been tampered with. the zoid model geno breaker jet shows wat the zoid most likely would have looked like if the core had not been tampred with in the anime. it also could have been wat the geno breaker might have looked like after gaurdian force, since it still has red in the coor scheme.--Leon35 19:39, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

I think the red under paneling in the geno saurer is from ambient unlocking the death saurer genes while he was tampering with it's core.

jemhadar98

Um, it was never proven Ambient did fuse with the Geno Saurer. It was only implyed. Also, you know you can make as accont on the wiki Jemhadar98, it's free. (Zoids Fanatic 22:51, June 2, 2010 (UTC))

Well I still think it's genetic, seeing as how the three geno saurers in zoid eve had the same coloration as the death saurer they must have a closer relation to it.

jemhadar98

SCV models

geno saurer SCV (holotech) was made by toys dream project, yet saber tiger SCV (gold) was not. wat does this mean and wat does SCV mean in the 1st place?--Leon35 02:18, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Special Color Version, far as I can remember. It shows up a lot in limited Zoids from that era. The Geno was also technically "clear black", even if everyone nicknamed it hologeno. Pointytilly 17:57, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

ok other than the name, i mostly kno all that "stuuf" i wanna kno nwat the relation is between the SCV geno and the SCV tiger because they r the only 2 models to use that in there names however only the geno is TDP. so wats the deal with that?--Leon35 18:56, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Prototype Geno Saurer and Rev Raptor

I can't find who originally did these scans. Feh. Of interest? The Geno Saurer is actually painted (at least parts are), the Raptor is still entirely in "we used whatever plastic we had" colors. The Rev page also has sketches of some upcoming Zoids: The Blade Liger, seen here with totally different legs and feet than it eventually had (and called a "new-type Shield [Liger]"); the Storm Sworder, mostly as it would be, but as an Empire Zoid! The other not-Rev raptor may be a Gun Sniper? If it is, it's not much like what we got. Pointytilly 18:14, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

HOLY CRAP! tilly ur a mad genius! this is amazing!--Leon35 18:57, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

im putting all of these zoids on there appropreate pages as prototypes! wow tilly not only are u a translator u r a pic scan master! teach me master i am young grasshopper!--Leon35 18:59, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

I didn't scan those—I found 'em on ZoidFans a while back, I believe? Lionel might have had them too, he has a lot of old prototype scans. When I work with images I use GIMP, however, the levels and curves tools can do quite a lot for a dodgy scan. Photoshop has similar. Pointytilly 19:03, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

if possible could u get decent quality pics of that storm sworder, gun sniper blade liger and shield liger?

yes Tilly it would be nice if u good those Blade Liger pics--Silverblade1 19:21, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

...and the other 1s its always blade liger with u. other zoids have feeling 2!--Leon35 19:22, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

im going 2 add it 2 the article i need 2 no the name of this magazine. also tilly i cant read japanese so does the geno scan mention its name, or is it just t-rex? i also need to kno how old these magazines are. if so i could probobly estimate if they are modle kits for the future or not. if not i could probobly estimate the time the zoid was supposed to be released--Leon35 19:27, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Leon u cant have a BL without a SL and the Geno Breaker and Koing wolf have always been favorites--Silverblade1 19:32, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Arrrgh, edit conflict. Anyway, I don't have the original magazine, just someone else's scans with no info on which magazine attached (thus I can't get bigger pics). Lionel's site doesn't have an origin either, just the same scan. It does say "code name T-rex", though, so I suspect the Saurer didn't have a name yet. Far as I can tell, it's thus from 1999, before any new kits existed in the NJR. Pointytilly 19:40, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

dam it stop conflicting with my edits! anyway this is wat i wrote before u gave it away tilly! "due to the incorect names and odd moulds (suuch as the blade liger mould and how the storm swoder is an imperial zoid and called pteramander which is a tottally diffreent zoid), i say this was published around the pre-njr time period. plus the rev raptor has a silver pilot and no njr zoids have those. the only njr zoids with chrome pilots are the pre njr dark horn and deadbroader wow i am smart"

since u said it was made in 1999, this confirms my theory about it being made during the pre-njr period i rule!--Leon35 19:48, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Uh, the NJR began in 1999. The first NEW designs were released in 2000, but the first models for it were released in August 1999. Also, the Storm Sworder is not called "pteramander" there, it's called pteranodon, as in its type. Pointytilly 19:55, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

And hey, HLJ gives January 2000 for the first NJR, yet other Japanese stuff lists August 1999, including Wikipedia. The frack o_O? Pointytilly 20:05, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

silver answered ur geno question at top!--Leon35 19:50, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

wow so many prototypes r we allowed 2 use those pics?

i kno but only pre-njr stuff was made at the time the line didnt actualy begin until late 1999-2000. in other words this magazine wsas made around the time the pre realese dark horn was made--Leon35 20:02, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

also can we use the prototype pics of that website?--Leon35 20:02, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

You could ask Lionel, though a lot of them aren't his scans either. Prototype/early magazine scans are really hard to source that way. The best you can do is attribute to the copyright holder of the stuff pictured and the magazine it's in where possible, unless the scan has a site watermark too D:. Pointytilly 20:07, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

i nt to that last site u linked to. its wierd. its the start of the njr, yet there are no new designs. in other words 1999 was a crossover time period of the pre release and the regukar release. this is an artifact. nvr lose this file. congratz tilly. me and u just solved the magazines origins.--Leon35 20:12, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

once agian, can we use those pics of that prototype website! wanna kno so i dont go 2 jail! simple yes or no and wat should i list it as?--Leon35 20:12, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Posting the scans of Tomy catalogues and hobby magazine articles with credit and source given as best as possible SHOULD be okay in the context of an article discussing them-they'd be being used to discuss and illustrate the product. There should be a copyright/fair use option when uploading files like that, and it's generally traditional to explain why you feel it's fair use in the summary/why it can't be replaced by a free-for-use image. Tomy/the magazine could still make a case for getting it sporked if they really wanted, but...eh, well, that's true of a LOT of images here, even the Zoids logo.

Any photographs with that black dropdown shadow look that HLJ uses, however, might be ones they took at a hobby show...I'm not entirely sure on their policy is. I know it's a no for reusing them on other sites to sell things, but "I want to use this with credit to show what a prototype looked like" might be worth asking them about. Pointytilly 21:29, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

k i dont kno how 2 contact properly so could u? anyway found out somtin interesting some of the models we listesd as TDP arent actualy TDP like the clear geno and the gojulos mkII (atleast hat wat it says on ultrasaurus red)

Prototype/Jet ties

Is there actual proof of this beyond "they have a similar color scheme"? Red and black is hardly the most original one out there, you could just as easily call the Jet a nod to Great Sabre/the newtype Zenebas stuff...or just someone having a thing for black recolors (there's a looot of limited black recolors in a lot of toylines).

Granted, I never paid that much attention to the Jet, so I don't remember how much story it had beyond the whole stealth paint deal/the Type B in the now-gone parts of the webcomic. Pointytilly 17:49, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Also, re: the prototype being repackaged...prototypes tend to be a single kit, certainly not enough for a limited run, and if there were a lot of examples produced with the opening vents one would likely have "escaped" (I've even seen single-shot test runs get onto auction sites). I'm really not seeing the Jet as anything other than POSSIBLY a nod to this, though it could also be reffing Raven's red anime Saurer or the things I mentioned above. Pointytilly 20:18, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

i belive lionel mentions it somewhere on his site, and i only used the word possible for the most part. i never said it actualy was. i said it was based off of the prototype so leave it as is and genobreaker's do not include enough parts to actualy build a genosaurer

The HMM Breaker doesn't, but the regular kit does, as does the Jet. And seriously, a whole group of prototype kits, completely undisturbed and unnoticed for years, then with things changed and repainted, is a more reasonable explanation than them just using the EXISTING mold? If we added every random bit of wild speculation to every article things would get...rather silly. Pointytilly 21:04, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

its not random. trust me i could think of 100 more reasons about the jet. i have established my role as the researcher remember? this is my current project ever since the ks turned out to be my biggest zoid FAIL (i died a little inside) this was the info i uncovered and i dont care about the HMM kits when it concerns this topic.--Leon35 21:10, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

ok i understand wat u ment about the parts being shared i will change that part. everything else stays

What reasons would that be other than color scheme, especially considering the Jet was a webcomic tiein? Said comic is gone now, but it's where the type B was from. Pointytilly 21:21, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

...ahh...look this is all i researched ok? u translate, i research. i dont judge u when u do a translation. i have gone onto misc. forums and zoid websites and some of the comments they made were the basis of my research. the majority mentioned the similarities between the 2 and as i said before lionel mnetions it somewhere as well on his site. i nvr said it actualy "was" the prototype but i nvr said it "wasnt" either. speculation. just be glad i didnt post all of the speculation i found which turned out to be random crap. this is as ligit as it gets so just deal 4 now.--Leon35 21:30, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

in addition, there isnt that much info to go on either zoid to begin with i happen to thing i did a half decent job on the research given the very little knowlage out there--Leon35 21:30, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

You're talking about Genobreaker Jet, that's it ? I don't think they are repackaged prototype Genosaurer, because we had the real colours of Genosaurer only one or two month after seeing the prototype, and several month before his actual release. It is not possible a first run of Geno was made with the proto colour (without any item surfacing before 2002). What I could have said before, is that it was coloured like the prototype. Anyway, the protoype was coloured like that to be like Deathsaurer, because Genosaurer was first announced as an evolution of Deathsaurer (like Blade Liger was the evolution of Shield Liger). And, to my mind, it's a shame the opening tail wasn't kept. Another thing, if I remember well, Geno Jet was a Zoidscore special. I don't think there is a Zoidscore page here, but it deserves his place like TDP. BTW, about the scans above, I don't remember if it was Raul or me who did them, but I have the same on my hard drive, and on papers. Looking at how those scans were done, there is chance they belong to me. If you want their origin : Corocoro november 1999.--Ultrasaurus-Red 21:38, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks...both for confirming what I said about the Geno and for where the scans were from ;p. I couldn't remember the magazine! Pointytilly 21:50, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Here is what I'm saying on my site : "Released in the begining of 2003, this black version of Genobreaker is the most beautiful version of this Zoïd. It is even possible to do the prototype version of Genosaurer with it (without the opening tail, of course). 3000 units done."--Ultrasaurus-Red 21:39, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

...

i never said it was actualy based. all data i have gathered from fan speculation. i really hate saying this over and over agian. do u understand now tilly--Leon35 21:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

If it's incorrect and from fan speculation, it...shouldn't be in the article. Pointytilly 21:50, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

thanks for the help on the magazine origin by da way and ya tilly said she found them on ur site i believe she listed it as "Used in way that is legal under US law" or somtin like that--Leon35 21:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

p.s. lionel we had some problems like this before u joined so i will sum it up 4 u im not saying u did but stay away from listing pics as public domain. either wat i said before, "I have premmision to use this image" or in ur case "This picture belongs to me" considering that u have ur own pics.--Leon35 21:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

ya thats wat i was talkin about. ty mr lionel--Leon35 21:46, October 27, 2009 (UTC) by da way, how do u want me 2 address u as?

Origin of the pics is not a question I'm asking to myself, most of all when there is only one single picture known of the Zoid... But I will try to take care when posting a pic here. Anyway, several are from my collection. Now as I told you, the picture originaly ios from Corocoro, that was copied on paper by Raul for me, that scanned it for my site... It will be hard to find the good copyright no ? To adress what ? How to call me ? Lionel, that's all.--Ultrasaurus-Red 21:53, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

The issue date and magazine name should be good for giving credit, I'll edit the image description. Pointytilly 21:56, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Wait a second Mistress Tilly... I checked, it is novemeber 1999. And I remember living this moment, when it was the first time we were discovering new designs...--Ultrasaurus-Red 21:59, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

believe it or not, a while back tilly and i already figured it out by knowing that pre release njr was 1998 and the recolos were 1999 and the new kist were 2000 and after. 1999 was also the period were TOMY was advertising the new kist 4 2000. with that knowlage, we assumed 1999. thanks 4 confirming it.--Leon35 22:02, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

If you want a little history lesson : 1997 : Zoids were seen at a toy show, OJR Zoids, but nothing else was said, and why... End of 1997 : Cheetha appreared on Tomy Zoids site museum (now diseappered, I have Cheetha pictures, if needed) 1998 : another toy show, with OJR Zoids, and Zoids 2. Pre-release of Darkhorn, Deadborder, and, maybe, Deathsaurer (I'm not sure about this last one). Also new releases of Zoids2. It is beleived that several variants are coming from here. 1999 : june, we learnt that a new Zoids serie will arrive, with new toys. First reissues, after new desings, like a new name : Irvine Command Wolf. summer 1999, reissue of several old Zoids, recolour, it is the begining of the NJR. november 1999, pictures seen of Irvine Command Wolf, Moonbay Gustav, Genosaurer, Revrapter, and are announced Blade Liger, Storm Sworder and Gunsniper. 25 december 1999 : Release of Irvine Command Wolf. 2000 : january, release of Moonbay gustav,; the rest will come the month after.--Ultrasaurus-Red 22:17, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

u were right about the display shows but 1998 was when the actual pre release was put onto the market, 1999 was when the recolors of the old designs were put onto the market, and 2000 and after was the time when all the new designs were produced. along side the recolors in 1999, TOMY released those prieviews in CoroCoro magazine as like a sneak peak of wat was to come in 2000.--Leon35 22:22, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, we were shown the new design something like 2 to 6 month before their actual release. I remember in 1998, a lmot of Darkhorn and Deadborder appeared on ebay. Those were from the pre-release.--Ultrasaurus-Red 22:27, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

ya thats wat i said. so 2 things, 1 wat is cheetha and 2 there was supposed to be a pre-release deathsaurer?--Leon35 22:34, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

I'm beleiving there could have been a pre-release Deathsaurer, because with the 1998 toy show pics, I saw a picture showing several OJR Deathsaurer boxes, in big packet, and one year later, I did a trade and I received an OJR Deathsaurer, but in a box... nearly C10. So I beleive it could have happended, near Deadborder and Darkhorn, but it is not confirmed at all.--Ultrasaurus-Red 22:44, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

k ill find a way to fit that under the main article. as for this cheetha u mentioned? can u describe and post a pic on this talk page?

For Cheetha, it was a Zoids seen on Tomy Museum site, a CGI animation, but thatwe saw developped day after day, piece by piece. We thought it could have been the last of the OJR Zoid, DPZ 26. It is only some years after that we saw a drawing of it, dated 1988, that make us understand it was Descat prototype, but that had been reused as a new design in 1997 (but without oy after... too bad).

The 1997 model :

What it could actually have looked like :

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/Ultrasaurus.Red/Cheetah%20custom.jpg

--Ultrasaurus-Red 22:55, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

jet vs proto (continued)

new heading makes it easier to find anyway its not incorrect. leave me alone let me feal accomplished for once. look niether zoid has alot of info. the info that i gathered and put together creates a general reference about the zoid. dont make me wanna eat u--Leon35 21:57, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

i probobly wont eat u anyway...i cant find the ketchup

so is it over now? r we all in agrement?--Leon35 21:58, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

That speculation is claiming there were three thousand kits of the Geno Saurer made in those colors—then not noticed for three years—when the purple colors were seen soon after and before actual production, as Lionel said. There's no evidence to support this at all, and what information there is outside of speculation goes against it. Therefore, I don't think the Jet connection belongs in the article as anything beyond "they look similar".

There's also data on the Jet itself, for whatever fluff text is worth, though that belongs in the Breaker article. Pointytilly 22:12, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

oh didnt realize i worded it wrong sry ill fix that and whatever else that u have on the jet itself (that doesnt involve the proto) u should add

BTW, you are listing Geno jet as a EStoy escluisive. I remeber it was a Zoidscore special Zoids, no ?--Ultrasaurus-Red 22:58, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

unfortunaltly there is alot of opinion about that as well as other zoids. for example some say the SCV Geno Saurer (Clear) was a TDP zoid while others say it was a Ehobby, Estoy, or Zoidscore. very confusing and everyone always seems to say something different. i actualy looked into this general topic once, however, there is way 2 much random and inconsistant info to support anything.--Leon35 23:02, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

What I listed on my site, which is what was said when they were released, is that the Jet is a Zoidscore, and the SVC a Toy'R Us.--Ultrasaurus-Red 23:05, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

u mean in japan? i nvr heard that one before. anyway im tired of talkin about this. by the way u should totally post that cheeta custom on ur talk page. and also u should choose an avatar (i would use ur custom ultra pic after all u r lionel)

oh and on ur talk page, describe how u made the custom --Leon35 23:11, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Well, all is said already on my site about this custom, and I think I will clean oftenly my talk page. I will only use it at a discussion page, and when it is finished or place is needing, I'm cleaning.--Ultrasaurus-Red 23:17, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Prototype T-Rex entry

After reading the entry on the Prototype T-Rex, I'm confused. Does the GB Jet come with movable tail vents? The genobreaker article states that there were 'no mold changes' from the genobreaker, meaning no tail vents. So you wouldn't really be creating the prototype... just a Genosauer with the same colors. I don't know much about the prototype... any clarification or is there just alot of fluff about changing a Jet to look like the prototype?--Azimuth727 20:37, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

when i wrote this originaly i didnt say they were no mold changes. here we go agian...ill look at it agianLeon35 21:15, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

The GB Jet has no mold changes from Genobreaker, but the article says that it would be possible to recreate the prototype, meaning with the tail vents. I think it should be something more like "a geno saurer model could be created with this color scheme by using parts from the GB Jet."--Azimuth727 22:09, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Officially (and imo what should be on the wiki) is that the prototype and Jet are unrelated other than possible color scheme inspiration. Period. The Jet wasn't made from some mysterious lost prototype stock; someone on ZP found a Geno Saurer test shot and the vents were already gone by that stage :p. Pointytilly 22:28, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Here, found the dratted thing. Rant thinks it might also be a master rather than test shot—either way, note lack of opening bits. Pointytilly 23:22, February 7, 2010 (UTC)