Am I the only one who thinks the Lightning Saix is not the fastest land based Zoid? (Zoids Fanatic 19:19, June 12, 2010 (UTC))
You're not, and it's not. Slax01 00:21, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
People have to know that the Marder (Hellrunner) is the fastest. (Zoids Fanatic 00:23, June 13, 2010 (UTC))
No its not. Berserk Fury Z has a max of 600. Slax01 00:38, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
Ok, well fastest ground based Zoid. (Zoids Fanatic 00:45, June 13, 2010 (UTC))
The Fury's ground based. Slax01 00:57, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
True, but the Z can only get to that speed while hovering in the air. Ok, the Marder is the fastest Zoid with legs touching the ground. (Zoids Fanatic 00:59, June 13, 2010 (UTC))
Dang. (Zoids Fanatic 03:26, June 13, 2010 (UTC))
While I do agree that the Marder is the fastest, and I realize that the Lightning Saix is not the fastest Zoid (though you think it would be with a name like that... and that it's based on a Cheetah((despite some dinosaurs being faster))), I think it's maximum speed is a bit low for it's speedy reputation. Consider episode 29 of Zoids Guardian Force. Van gets irritated that they weren't informed of the Death Stinger's attack on the village of Mt. Isolena(sp?) saying that his upgraded Blade Liger and Irvine's Lightning Saix could easily keep up with Viola and Roso's Storm Sworders... Now Storm Sworders fly at top speed of Mach 3.2, Mach 1 being the speed of sound which is the equivelant of 1236km/h. Knowing that, I'd think that the Saix's top speed would need to be bit higher in order to keep up, especially since I'm sure the Storm Sworders would need to go close to top speed to reach the village in time. And lets not forget the episode "Super Sonic Battle" where Irvine goes toe to toe with Carol's Storm Sworder and is able to keep up with her just fine. Also, the Murasame Liger which is almost as fast as the Saix, has a blade that can pivot around... Maybe it's because the blade is more streamlined but... in knowing that, you'd think that the Saix's guns would be able to pivot even given it's top speed... Regardless, all I'm saying is that I think the Saix's top speed should be listed higher than what it is. I also apologize for this really long post...(Meiya007 04:34, September 22, 2010 (UTC))
We can't list information without a citation, so we can't just put in a random number into the template, regardless of how right we think it is (that used to happen, but after alot of hideously incorrect information got into the wiki, we no longer allow it)- I assume the stats on here were sourced from the Zoid's box, as all info in the various infoboxes are (or should be- I don't have the boxes personally, so I can't check myself, but I assume the current stats to be correct). The anime is known to be non-scale (see death saurer and ultrasaurus), so I see no reason why the Zoid's anime top speed may not be equivalent to the one listed on the box- but this does not mean the stats in the template should be changed, rather, in the CC section, it should be noted that it is heavily implied (if not outright stated) that the saix can go supersonic. In New Century at least, the Saix and the Jager were equal(ish) in speed, as per the stats we have now, but the Jager was still much slower than any flying Zoid (and in turn the Saix was as well) thus, I'd be happy to (or for you to) write the supersonic stuff into the CC(GF) section, but not into the infobox, as this supersonic stuff was specific to the one media. Slax01 05:02, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah that makes sense that you would go off the box instead of the anime since it came first. I wasn't saying that you should change the info box per say, I know I did say it should be listed higher but I meant that's what the creaters should've done. Sorry I didn't specify that. I just wanted people to keep that in mind... And it's also good for discussion. lol. To include the supersonic would be pretty cool though. It just seemed a little odd to me that things weren't matching up... I only looked down later and saw that other people felt the same too. Sorry about that. Normaly I make sure to read everything through before posting but I'm a bit out of it today. (yay, lack of sleep...) I can also see why people being alowed to post without a citation would be bad. I'll bet a lot of people just upped the sats on zoids simply because they were their favorites and then a lot of stat battles insued... or maybe not, but I can imagine other things. Anyways, I think I'll leave the super sonic mention to you if you don't mind. I'm still rather new to editing pages and I wouldn't want to ruin anything. I guess Zoids figures and the Zoids anime are like other animes and their movies. Nothing relates at all. lol (Meiya007 06:39, September 22, 2010 (UTC))
- In CC ep 29, the Blade Liger with Zeke is shown to be much faster than a Black Redler. Back Redlers were already superior to regular Redlers (mach 3). If we take the anime at face value, it would mean the Blade Liger's top speed is far greater than mach 3. And this is before the upgrades in GF. I think I'll go add this to the Blade Liger's page. Sylvanelite 10:16, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
- So I've been watching the shows again lately and I've finished with CC and GF and I'm currently watching New Center Zero... From the looks of the three of these so far, it seems as though none of the flying zoids with the exception of the Modified Storm Sworder and the Raynos can even go at the speed of sound. In New Century Zero they were making a huge deal out of both zoids (the Storm Sworder being modified too...) breaking the sound barrier when no other flying zoid had. Dr. Leon even goes on about how it's such an amazing feet... But most flying zoids can already go atleast Mach 2 so thats already two times the speed of sound. I'm wondering if this is just New Century Zero or, if all three animes here are on the same level, GF also. In any case, this might atest as to why the Lightning Saix and Blade Liger were able to keep up with Redlers and regular Storm Sworders in GF. This is all just conjecture though, especialy since there's still that episode titled "Super Sonic Battle" in GF but they never mention any of the actual speeds. Anyone know more on this? (Meiya007 00:08, September 27, 2010 (UTC))
- At least in terms of Jamie, they mention that the Pteras is able to break the speed of sound, just that Jaime had never wanted to. At least in NC0, it's more about the pilots than the Zoids. Most of the Zabats are unmanned. Sylvanelite 00:21, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
- Also, keep in mind that most flying Zoids max speeds are Mach 2 and so forth. This means that they can go to that speed, but it appears the pilots don't want to (any given reasons, won't go into them).
- (Zoids Fanatic 00:29, September 27, 2010 (UTC))
- For your flying Zoids issue, think about fighter pilots. A lot of the fighter-planes today can go Mach 2 or 3, however dogfighting at that speed is a stupid idea - it exponentially increases the amount of force put on their body, which can cause pilots to black out or die. The same would be the case with the Zoids battles. Especially in NCO, where the battlefields are 30 km in either direction. If you're going Mach 2 you'll cover that ground in a few seconds, and then you'll be right out the other side and disqualified from the fight.--Azimuth727 19:39, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
- Yeah that makes sense. Thanks guys... But I was looking at the Energy Ligers page and it's max speed is listed at 660km/h- 150km/h faster than the Marder's top speed. Shouldn't we list the Energy Liger as the fastest? (Meiya007 05:40, October 7, 2010 (UTC))
- Umm, not really, since there are many flying zoids that are faster, and the attack zoids linked above are faster (though they need citations), and if we say "excluding flying zoids"- then you have to define "flying" and unless whatever definition we come up with can be cited, it shouldn't be added. "one of the fastest" is a perfectly valid statement though ;) Slax01 06:16, October 7, 2010 (UTC)
Some issues Edit
What's with the long descriptions of what all the stabilizer wings do? I dunno where /Zero got that 100% kicking power crap from the concept of downforce, buuut wtf or not that's canon. However, I can't remember the Saix's stuff being described as doing that. If it was and I'm being forgetful, then just some slimming down of description would help.
The guns' ability to move 5/10 degress I'm also wondering about, as the only place I can remember seeing that is a RPG I'm on that added that for game balance purposes. Again, I could be missing something...and so I ask!
The main picture is also from a site that outright asks people to please not repost his stuff. (Yes, I know it was on Wikipedia as free to use, but whoever put it there lied about that.) I think we should get another, because reference or not it's rude to do after someone's specifically requested you not. If I still had my NJR Saix I'd take one, but I don't...couldn't we use a picture of Pheno's or someone else who doesn't mind?
(I can get a free for wiki use picture of Hasbro!Saix later, though.) Pointytilly 08:26, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
- I was wondering about those stats as well, but considering I don't have the model, I didn't remove it. All I know is what is said on the Nc0 DVD, where it says they can't rotate, and their turning circle is wide, but nothing about the stabilisers. Slax01 08:35, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
- Liger Zero has downforce in NC0, not sure about the saix. The Saix's guns can't pivot, that's true, 5-10 degrees seems oddly specific though and I doubt that's canon. Also there was some mention of supersonic? It can't go super sonic, not by a longshot (super sonic is >1000kmph) However, in CC/GF it's weird. Blade liger outruns a (redler?) or something, which can go SS. So anime =/= box stats. Sylvanelite 08:47, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
I dunno what's up with that Redler thing either. Considering the big deal made in Bit's fight with Pierce over sonic booms, the Saix going that fast would likely have gotten some mention all those times he tangled with it in the Jaeger. And then there's Irvine's fight with um...Carol, was it? Red Storm Sworder lady. Didn't she sonic boom slam him too? Pointytilly
...aaand I just realized I DID take a couple pictures of my NJR Saix. Hopefully that one'll do. Pointytilly 09:17, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
I think the image should be changed to one that depicts the Saix in the anime in order to conform with the majority of the other Zoid pages. Visitors who have not seen the anime might not know if it follows the anime colour or issues like that. - BladeLigerLeong 10:23, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, I thought the Saix did follow the anime color scheme? (Zoids Fanatic 13:49, July 23, 2010 (UTC))
The NJR Saix does follow the anime colors. I the picture is fine as is, people will recognize it from the anime.--Azimuth727 14:18, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
I'm just saying it's better to have an anime image to conform with the other pages, like what I said above. Never mind what I said about visitors and the colour. - BladeLigerLeong 14:24, July 23, 2010 (UTC)
zoids saga2/legacy Edit
The lightning saix is actually superior in all areas to the lightning saix bs with the exception of the pulse laser. all other stats are either equal or worse on the bs. I also know that we arn't supposed to hypothesize, but does any one have a clue to what the Bs stands for?220.127.116.11 02:51, August 9, 2010 (UTC)cerberus
Oh, bad name there.
Anyhow, the article does state that the regular is stronger then the BS. (Zoids Fanatic 02:57, August 9, 2010 (UTC))
interesting in VS/Battle Legends, the BS is stronger. guess thats why its called bs lol--Leon35 03:00, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
What's a Siax Edit
Where did the term come from? ZGWolf 20:02, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
Umm, where did people get the information that the Lightning Saix is an evolved form of the Helcat? Following stats on Zoids Legacy, the Lightning Saix is it's own proper zoid, if it were an evolution of the Helcat, the Helcat would be listed with it just like the Blade Liger is listed with the Shield Liger. But the Lightning Saix is classed as "Lightning Saix Type" and Helcat is classed as "Small Type" both under the Imperial Force. Plus, in Guardian Force, Doctor D himself states that he helped create the Lightning Saix; "This is an ultra high-speed zoid that I've been secretly developing for the Empire, I call it the Lightning Saix!" (Episode 48 Chaotic Century/Episode 13 Guardian Force, approx 4min into the episode). Doctor D doesn't have an Organoid, so this proves he developed it himself. In the same episode, he also stated that the research he did into Ancient Zodians lead him to discover a template of their technology which he used to build the Lightning Saix off, making it it's own proper zoid like it states in Zoids Legacy. 18.104.22.168 03:17, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
For that, I'm not sure. But keep in mind that the information could have come from the Battlestory, rather then the games or anime. Now, that's just a suggestion, so don't take my words as law until someone could varify it. (Besides, I don't want to be chewed out again).
(Zoids Fanatic 15:22, January 2, 2011 (UTC))
- Wow... citing your evidence and everything. Good question, but Zoids Fanatic is correct in that that information comes from the battle story (I'm about 95% sure on this one). A lot of Zoids have organoid systems in the battle story- see here.--Azimuth727 20:07, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Agreeing with Azimuth. Very well presented and a good question. It is indeed mentioned in the battlestory and this last part I am not 100% on, but I believe that in the anime, in addition to all the things you said, Dr. D also mentions the helcat briefly when talking about the Saix's development process.--Leon35 06:13, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
Here is a zoids family tree that was uploaded to this wiki a while ago. It is based of Zoids Saga DS database, so it is more up to date than Legacy. It shows the Saix being evolved from the Helcat. Sylvanelite 01:30, January 4, 2011 (UTC)