so that this isn't on random pages, I'm putting it here. I didn't think this needed a topic, but there's been a big stuffup with character ages. I've just gone through Zoids saga DS, and nearly every single age on here was completely incorrect. The ones that were correct I note had basically all been corrected by Sylvanelite. In light of that: DO NOT guess a character's age. Secondly, DO NOT put "unknown", or "uncertain" or things like that, because some characters actually do have unknown or uncertain ages, like Ron, Hiltz, the organoids, etc. If you do not know the age, just leave it blank. This does NOT mean get rid of the age field altogether, as that causes a template error. Simply leave the area after the equals sign blank. Now the ages that I've gone through and added were all from "Zoids Saga DS - Legend of Arcadia", which I believe is the most up-to-date source. It is also, as far as I've been able to check, consistent between it, Legacy and the Japanese anime shows. If any of the ages which I removed were actually from official sources, then feel free to add them back in, but MAKE SURE the source is both reliable and cited. Slax01 00:32, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
Various Discussions on the IssueEdit
Since this topic has been brought up on many separate pages, with the same points being iterated numerous times, I am moving the talk here so it can be resolved. Any talk about character ages beyond asking for citations should not be done on character pages. Any incorrect edits to ages will be considered vandalism. The issue has gone on long enough, with a resolution put in place weeks ago. There is no reason for further edits to be made without discussing them first. If any vandalism is spotted, offending users will be requested to stop. Should warning not be heeded, bans may be used. This is not retrospective, as the issue has only become apparent recently. Edits that conform with the above guidelines are fine, and welcomed. Sylvanelite 10:40, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Feel free to add any further discussion below this heading.
below is the discussion from Talk:Leon Toros
That's all right. No trouble caused, Fanatic. So how about the NCZ characters' ages then? They accurate? - BladeLigerLeong 14:17, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
I don't know if they're accurate or not, because no-one's cited them. If you have a reliable, official, citation, then it's fine, if you don't, then don't add in the information. Also, don't add unknown or unspecified if you don't know. If it is not stated, just leave it blank- unknown should be reserved for those who's ages aren't known in universe, like Hiltz, Reese, etc. As per this page. Slax01 22:24, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
So, which ages are correct then? (Zoids Fanatic 22:26, June 30, 2010 (UTC))
That, my friend, is exactly the problem. Slax01 22:30, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
Well, I think Van's age is correct, but aside from that I'm stumped. Maybe we should remove the age thing, and did what we did before. Add the age to a part of the article. (Zoids Fanatic 22:37, June 30, 2010 (UTC))
Just leave it for now, some are cited in Legacy, and I'm currently trying to get a hold of Saga DS to see if its database has any info. But I've still got some Genesis articles to do, so I may take a while. Slax01 22:55, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
Will do. And take your time, no ones pushing you. And if you need help, feel free to ask. (Zoids Fanatic 23:19, June 30, 2010 (UTC))
By the way, VanXFiona, absoluteanime.com wasn't the website with the heights, it was metoriaz.webs.com. But it's still not official anyway, so don't go take any info from it. - BladeLigerLeong 15:32, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
Slax, what's the big difference with leaving the age column blank? It's the same as simply saying 'Unknown' or Unspecified'. Whether or not the ages are known, the 'universe' thing you mentioned above does not matter. And it wouldn't look nice to leave the age column blank anyway. I'm saying this not only for the Leon page, but for every other character whose age is unknown/unspecified/blank. - BladeLigerLeong 11:37, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
@BladeLigerLeong: i still dunno about it... but im still unsure what other websites that are official.VanXFiona 12:00, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
Doesn't really matter, VanXFiona. Whatever website we visit, we'll just have to determine ourselves whether or not it's official by finding out more about the site. - BladeLigerLeong 12:13, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
Leong, I don't have the answer, instead, I have a question. Some character's official ages are listed as "?". Some character's ages are not, and are instead left blank. My question to you is: Why should we say that all character's who's ages left blank are the same as all character's ages who have explicit reason to have a "?" put in? If you can give me an answer to this question that doesn't degrade the integrity of the wiki, I'm all ears. Slax01 23:02, July 2, 2010 (UTC)
Because either way, the characters' ages aren't known. If the 'official' age is simply a question mark, then just put '?' or 'unknown' in the age column, and if it is not even stated, just put 'unspecified'. That way, Slax, it will not be left blank for nothing. Leaving the age column blank will cause visitors viewing the site to think that the site is not properly updated since the admins do not even know how to admit that they don't know whether the ages are unknown or not. - BladeLigerLeong 05:23, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
- Do NOT remove the age field from the template. You get:
- appearing in the table otherwise. Please don't go around vandalising the templates. Leave the field blank if you do not know what should go in it, as people have clearly shown they are unable to use reliable information. Many of the characters used to have "unspecified", as you've suggested. People took this as a free right to vandalise the wiki with false information. I suggest you listen to what Slax is saying, because he is pretty much the only contributor who's character age edits haven't been complete vandalism. Sylvanelite 06:06, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Well, given that you're telling me you've actually gone through every Zoids media in existence and found that nowhere is the age stated ever, and are willing to go through every piece of media that will ever be released, in order to maintain this claim's validity, then that's fine by me, go ahead and add "unspecified" in, just make sure you cite it first. Slax01
Sylvan, are you trying to suggest I'm vandalising the articles? My character age edits haven't been complete vandalism either. Because of that, Slax is not the boss of me. And Slax, I may have not gone through all of that which you mentioned above, but I'm only stating my point. - BladeLigerLeong 06:58, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
- You broke a template. That's not vandalism. But if you do it a lot, it can be. Considering I've already had to go through a number of templates to fix them, it's more a warning than anything else. Also, I was addressing your idea. It was tried. It lead to vandalism, I'm not giving it a second chance. Sylvanelite 09:44, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
- I did not break the template. I haven't even touched it since Slax removed the 'unspecified' word from the age column. Please do not falsely accuse me of doing something I did not. - BladeLigerLeong 04:27, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
- ummm, what? I can clearly see your edit in the history of the page. Slax removed "unspecified" then you, in the very next edit, changed the caption to "Leon in episode 16" and removed the age field from the template. This is not a false accusation, it's clearly there for anyone to see. I'm not sure if this'll work, but here is a link to the exact page in the history where you did it. So run it by me again how you "haven't even touched it" after Slax edited? Sylvanelite 05:09, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
- When I changed the caption, I did not remove the age field. I simply cleared the word 'age???' or something there since Slax wanted it blank. - BladeLigerLeong 05:12, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, 1) you just admitted your previous comment was a lie. Since you did indeed edit the page when you said you didn't. And 2) you clearly did remove the age field, since it was already blank after Slax's edit. There was no age??? in there. Please stop lying, your not doing yourself any favours. Sylvanelite 05:18, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
- I did not lie, I only just remembered. And when I removed the word 'age???' from the age field, I had no idea that is had lead to this. It's not my fault. - BladeLigerLeong 05:22, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
below is the discussion from Talk:Rosso
Can someone verify Rosso's age? 35 doesn't seem like the other characters "around 28-40". But I haven't found reliable info indicating it's 30. Can someone clarify where it came from?Sylvanelite 00:35, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
- I don't think Rosso's age is ever mentioned. Seems like it was an estimate to me--it's not listed in Legacy either. Just a suggestion, but I've been thinking: should we just remove the "Age" bit from the templates? We don't seem to have reliable information on most of the characters. It's a nice statistic, but those few who do have their age mentioned somewhere can have it noted in-article? -Imperial Dragon 13:21, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
I used to do that on character articles. Maybe putting unknown would be the best option. (Zoids Fanatic 14:17, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
- I did that on two of the pages, but then undid my changes because Sylvan took "Unknown" off of most of the CC templates. Erm... maybe we could just put "Adult?" -Imperial Dragon 15:19, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
- There's a big difference between "unknown" and "I don't know". Hiltz, for example, (and most ancient Zoidians), have been around for what is implied to be thousands of years. Thus, their age is truly unknown. However, someone who's age may be known (e.g. Amy in Fuzors, her age is based on a calculation from supporting media, so most people wouldn't know it) shouldn't be listed as "unknown" just because someone didn't know her age at the time. The age field should be left empty if their age is not known. Sylvanelite 22:22, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
Um, I think that be obivous (like Van and Fiona, that's a joke). Any other sources we can try? (Zoids Fanatic 15:23, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
- Legacy lists only a few. There's nothing in VS III or FMC, which are the only other video games I own... (Perhaps Tactics has something?--Though I doubt it.) The anime mentions only Van's age in one episode; if anyone else's age is said in the dialogue, I missed it. Maybe the Encyclopedia has something? But other than that, I don't think we have any other official sources we can use. -Imperial Dragon 15:28, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, we need a way to get info on age. (Zoids Fanatic 15:33, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
- There is a lot of supporting media that takes a lot of time to go through, DVD's, games, etc. Here's the thing. Wiki's are supposed to be the go-to place for fans to find out this kind of information. As contributors we are supposed to do the leg work of finding the info in the first place. If we don't know, then ideally someone else who does should come along and edit. Sylvanelite 22:22, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
You have a point. I can (and proboly will) check ZoidsPosion to see if anyone has any info about age. As for now, maybe we should put unknown. (Zoids Fanatic 22:37, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
- Please read my actual edits notably, where I just said: There's a big difference between "unknown" and "I don't know". Hiltz, for example, (and most ancient Zoidians), have been around for what is implied to be thousands of years. Thus, their age is truly unknown. However, someone who's age may be known (e.g. Amy in Fuzors, her age is based on a calculation from supporting media, so most people wouldn't know it) shouldn't be listed as "unknown" just because someone didn't know her age at the time. The age field should be left empty if their age is not known. Sylvanelite 22:44, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, we'll you already fixed that. And, if I remember correctly, didn't they celebrate Sweets 16th birthday in one episode of Fuzors?
(Zoids Fanatic 22:47, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
Anyhow, but what do you think about Fiona's age? Should we keep it the way it is, or should we say unknown?
(Zoids Fanatic 22:56, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
- You see, this is the exact problem I'm talking about. Fiona:
Actual age is unknown, Appears 14 (17 in the English dub) in Chaotic Century Appears 16 (18 in dub) at the beginning of Guardian Force Appears 17 (19 in dub) at the end of Guardian Force
How does she "appear" to be different ages depending on who her voice actor is? Yes, Van's age might have been changed in the dub. But that doesn't alter the way Fiona appears. I know the episode you mean with sweet, it's 11 the battle royal. I didn't think her age was listed, but I can go back and check. Anyway, Zoids Fanatic: DO NOT edit those ages while I'm looking up these references. Sylvanelite 23:11, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
Ok, I won't edit Fiona's or Sweet's page. Also, you can just call me Fanatic, or any of my other "names".
(Zoids Fanatic 23:16, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
Ok, I posted for help on this on ZP, and Tilly was able to get me some names.
below is the discussion from Talk:Raven
Can someone verify Raven's age for me? So far a large number of character ages have been incorrect. I can't find citable information for his age. (alternatively, whoever put in his age, can they just provide where they got it from?) Sylvanelite 00:25, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
Well, I did a guess on his age. He looked like he was either the same age as Van (17 at the end) or older (18 or 19). Really it was a guess, and now I'm trying to find the other characters ages. (Zoids Fanatic 00:31, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
For why so many ages are incorrect, that be my fault. When I made some articles, I guessed on the age (14-16). After that, other users decided to copy the idea, and make a rough estimate on the age. (Zoids Fanatic 00:42, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
- I removed it. If someone has credible info for his age, feel free to add it back in. Sylvanelite 00:48, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I aware on that.
Doesn't Legacy have character info? I remember you told me that you found Van's age on Legacy, and that number's "don't lie"
(Zoids Fanatic 00:49, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
- Only some of the characters have info, where it exists I'm using it. Sylvanelite 00:55, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
Ok. I know that some of the users have a good amount of the games, I can ask them, and I can look on ZP to see if anyone has info. That is if needed.
(Zoids Fanatic 00:57, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
I'm pretty sure he's 14 in Chaotic Century and 18 in Guardian Force, based on the Zoids: Legacy games. -220.127.116.11 02:21, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
- I have Legacy, and his age isn't listed. It would seem weird to have 14 and 18 in Legacy, considering Van and the other people have a 2 year age gap between the series, not a 4 year gap. Sylvanelite 02:29, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
I think that he's the same age as Van, but that's just a guess. (Zoids Fanatic 02:33, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
- Don't add guesses to the wiki. At least 12 characters so far have had incorrect ages, and that's just the ones I can confirm. Sylvanelite 02:40, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
Well, now I know. I'll keep that in mind when I make Genesis characters. (Zoids Fanatic 02:46, June 26, 2010 (UTC))
How many years pass after Chaotic Century? I thought it was 4, but I think its 2 in the Japanese. And how many characters are different ages between the two? It seems Van and Fiona is different depending on the version but I'm unsure baout anyone else. --Levells 20:45, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
In Japan, it's 2 years. However, the English dub never stated this, so in reailty, only a year would be between seasons (for the English dub). As for Van and Fiona, it depends on the dub. Van is actually 14 in CC, however, the dub states he is 17. So by the end of Guardian Force, Van would be 17 in the Japanese version, but 18 in the dubbed version.
(Zoids Fanatic 20:53, July 16, 2010 (UTC))